Okay, it's a little long, but I felt it all worth saying...thanks for bearing with me ;-)
Here we are, communing in this electronic forum because we’re all into dancing with these wonderful, powerful circles. A community is being created in this uniquely connected web and it’s beautiful in its blooming, relative infancy. We are all walking our own paths with our hoops and, though we often tread on related territory…perhaps even reaching similar terrain at synchronous times, there are those times when a dedicated hoop explorer reaches fertile new ground first. That said, there is a concept held in another passionate community- rock climbers- that I think applies to some of the terrain we are coming to in the development of hoop dance…the idea of first ascent. First ascent refers to the first completed climb of a new route, blazing a new trail, discovering and charting a path that many others will undoubtedly follow. The one who makes the first ascent is most often the one who names the climb and who can best detail its subtleties and challenges and suggest useful techniques for those who follow. That person is recognized and appreciated for their contribution and exploration of new territory.
All that said, there’s been a lot of talk these past few months/weeks on this tribe about currents, reverses, reversing twins, etc. and, as my boy Baxter (who finally posted some videos of his baddass self- check out the Hooping Videos tribe) coined all those terms and, as far as I know, the movements themselves, I figured it was time to chime in and share some feelings I have about him, his prolific hooping, and his long list of hooping ‘first ascents’. Baxter hoops A LOT, pretty much daily, for round about 90 minutes, most often on his sacred, circular patch (which you can see in the videos). All this hooping has changed him in amazing ways, and has led him to all sorts of interesting and unique hoop movement. There is a channel open in him that lets a lot of light through and has led him up many first ascents. These ascents he’s been gracious enough to share with me and others of our tribe and that-along with the transmissions through my own channel- have led to some delightful first ascents for me too. (I believe this channel potentially exists in many of us Greyfeathers, though it seems to get more powerful and open the more it is acknowledged with awareness and reverence.) Now, I know I could be off on some of this, and please do correct me if I’m wrong, but since I’m probably the most qualified person other than Bax himself to speak of his ascents and since I think it does bear mentioning for the simple, grateful and meaningful practice of giving props where they’re due….here goes…
Baxter is the first person I know of to ever do a reverse, break, or series of reverses; a couple years ago, he was the first I ever saw do a reverse while hooping two hoops (twins), hooping them in opposite directions with enviable grace and then sending the hoop of his choice back the other way…again and again; he was the first I ever saw hoop with a blindfold…it has been a key part of his practice for the last four years at least, and is something we now share with hoop students as a way to tune into the body; as Baxter has felt strongly for years about creating a language to intelligently transmit the teaching of hoop dance (hence, extensive Hoop Path™ terminology), he came up with the term ‘current’ - to denote not only hoop direction, but to convey the greater implication of intentionally moving energy; he was the first teacher I’ve ever heard tell students to pick up their dropped hoop and send it in the other current as a way to consistently try and keep both sides balanced; and he’s certainly the first and only person I’ve seen do a reverse on his knees with his friggin foot (what?!). I could go on, but that’s the gist of what’s been discussed on this tribe of late and that I thought merited some credit. There’s a good bit of other amazing stylistic stuff that he and I have going on down here, but we’ll save the rest of that for real-time on the playa;-)
I feel blessed to hoop with Baxter a lot, he’s a true hoop genius! There is strength in numbers, and we seem to come upon more fertile, new territory every time we throw down together. Our individual and mutual hoopgnosis (as we call it down here) is a truly special gift that I’m grateful to have in my life. I didn’t chime in on the ‘Hoop Elders’ post (though I thoroughly appreciated its intention and those who mentioned me as one of their hoop influences) because my feelings about elders is not quite the same as acknowledging those that came before me- unless it’s humble acknowledgement of my ancient ancestral warrior tribe that slay demons with the speed and precision of their circular weapons….but that’s for another thread.
When I started hooping down here there was no one to learn from and it was the friends I shared hooping with that became my tribe and co-creators of hoop movement, and we walked our hoop paths slowly. Even without the knowledge of the plethora of movement possible with hoops, Baxter, Julia and I took hooping on with a passion. Once I became more connected to the greater community through the internet, I was determined to undertake hoop journeys to see what others were doing (no YouTube postings then). I went to L.A in January 2004 to take a lesson from Anah aka. Hoopaliscious and brought her ascent (as far as I know) of angle hooping back to our tribe. I went to NYC to check out the Groovehoops crew and was thrilled with the jumps that Wheylan pulled off and with Malcom’s ethereal isolations. These are potential ‘first ascents’ from these hoopers that I have been blessed to learn and meld into my own version, my own style…I am grateful for the contributions of all the community to the greater depth and variance of this amazing practice, and invite you all to share your ‘first ascents’ or to acknowledge those of others.
Here we are, communing in this electronic forum because we’re all into dancing with these wonderful, powerful circles. A community is being created in this uniquely connected web and it’s beautiful in its blooming, relative infancy. We are all walking our own paths with our hoops and, though we often tread on related territory…perhaps even reaching similar terrain at synchronous times, there are those times when a dedicated hoop explorer reaches fertile new ground first. That said, there is a concept held in another passionate community- rock climbers- that I think applies to some of the terrain we are coming to in the development of hoop dance…the idea of first ascent. First ascent refers to the first completed climb of a new route, blazing a new trail, discovering and charting a path that many others will undoubtedly follow. The one who makes the first ascent is most often the one who names the climb and who can best detail its subtleties and challenges and suggest useful techniques for those who follow. That person is recognized and appreciated for their contribution and exploration of new territory.
All that said, there’s been a lot of talk these past few months/weeks on this tribe about currents, reverses, reversing twins, etc. and, as my boy Baxter (who finally posted some videos of his baddass self- check out the Hooping Videos tribe) coined all those terms and, as far as I know, the movements themselves, I figured it was time to chime in and share some feelings I have about him, his prolific hooping, and his long list of hooping ‘first ascents’. Baxter hoops A LOT, pretty much daily, for round about 90 minutes, most often on his sacred, circular patch (which you can see in the videos). All this hooping has changed him in amazing ways, and has led him to all sorts of interesting and unique hoop movement. There is a channel open in him that lets a lot of light through and has led him up many first ascents. These ascents he’s been gracious enough to share with me and others of our tribe and that-along with the transmissions through my own channel- have led to some delightful first ascents for me too. (I believe this channel potentially exists in many of us Greyfeathers, though it seems to get more powerful and open the more it is acknowledged with awareness and reverence.) Now, I know I could be off on some of this, and please do correct me if I’m wrong, but since I’m probably the most qualified person other than Bax himself to speak of his ascents and since I think it does bear mentioning for the simple, grateful and meaningful practice of giving props where they’re due….here goes…
Baxter is the first person I know of to ever do a reverse, break, or series of reverses; a couple years ago, he was the first I ever saw do a reverse while hooping two hoops (twins), hooping them in opposite directions with enviable grace and then sending the hoop of his choice back the other way…again and again; he was the first I ever saw hoop with a blindfold…it has been a key part of his practice for the last four years at least, and is something we now share with hoop students as a way to tune into the body; as Baxter has felt strongly for years about creating a language to intelligently transmit the teaching of hoop dance (hence, extensive Hoop Path™ terminology), he came up with the term ‘current’ - to denote not only hoop direction, but to convey the greater implication of intentionally moving energy; he was the first teacher I’ve ever heard tell students to pick up their dropped hoop and send it in the other current as a way to consistently try and keep both sides balanced; and he’s certainly the first and only person I’ve seen do a reverse on his knees with his friggin foot (what?!). I could go on, but that’s the gist of what’s been discussed on this tribe of late and that I thought merited some credit. There’s a good bit of other amazing stylistic stuff that he and I have going on down here, but we’ll save the rest of that for real-time on the playa;-)
I feel blessed to hoop with Baxter a lot, he’s a true hoop genius! There is strength in numbers, and we seem to come upon more fertile, new territory every time we throw down together. Our individual and mutual hoopgnosis (as we call it down here) is a truly special gift that I’m grateful to have in my life. I didn’t chime in on the ‘Hoop Elders’ post (though I thoroughly appreciated its intention and those who mentioned me as one of their hoop influences) because my feelings about elders is not quite the same as acknowledging those that came before me- unless it’s humble acknowledgement of my ancient ancestral warrior tribe that slay demons with the speed and precision of their circular weapons….but that’s for another thread.
When I started hooping down here there was no one to learn from and it was the friends I shared hooping with that became my tribe and co-creators of hoop movement, and we walked our hoop paths slowly. Even without the knowledge of the plethora of movement possible with hoops, Baxter, Julia and I took hooping on with a passion. Once I became more connected to the greater community through the internet, I was determined to undertake hoop journeys to see what others were doing (no YouTube postings then). I went to L.A in January 2004 to take a lesson from Anah aka. Hoopaliscious and brought her ascent (as far as I know) of angle hooping back to our tribe. I went to NYC to check out the Groovehoops crew and was thrilled with the jumps that Wheylan pulled off and with Malcom’s ethereal isolations. These are potential ‘first ascents’ from these hoopers that I have been blessed to learn and meld into my own version, my own style…I am grateful for the contributions of all the community to the greater depth and variance of this amazing practice, and invite you all to share your ‘first ascents’ or to acknowledge those of others.
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 12:18 PMThere is a similar thread to this in this tribe also. It is called Praises for our Hoop Elders. Here's a link:
hooping.tribe.net/thread/9b...4a0ed8f844
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 1:00 PMGratitude to Baxter and all the imaginative hoopers in the world. I also wanted to share that I first learned directional changes from Dizzy Hips at a Seattle Group Hoop in 2003. It blew my mind the first time I saw it, yet I was working with a larger hoop then and found the directional changes slower. I see now that Dizzy and Baxter and others who do more current changes and acrobatic styles use smaller hoops, which I am enjoying now too. And yes, Baxter has developed his own flowing style that is awesome to see.
One thing I like to remember is that hooping is 4000 years old, though we think we have coined a new term or dance or move in the last 5-10 years, really we are part of a long continuum of humans using the hoop, or sacred circle, as a medium for dance, art, and play. There are infinite ways of using the hoop, and always old tricks to rediscover, and new tricks to unearth. I hoop we always remember that the circle is open to all, and is a symbol of community, openness, family, and interconnections. Each time the wheel goes round it is a little different, a little the same. -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 1:29 PMVery good points, Kara. I assume Spiral is asking folks to share hoop moves, terms and experiences that we thought of ourselves (though not necessarily a unique creation) as opposed to copying someone else. I'm fairly new to hooping and am still working to develop my own personal style, so just about everything related to hooping I've learned from people on this tribe. So far, I'm most creative in the hoop making process - trying different designs, etc. (failing miserably sometimes.) But one hoop move that I like to do (and created from my own mind) is a pretty ballet move with the hoop that I think is called in ballet a 'pirouette en attitude derriere.' I just call it a pirouette, though. It's really easy as well as graceful and gentle.
susan -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 2:06 PMthanks for all your words spiral, they are a pleasure to read. as the hoop community grows, so will the use of the terms, styles and moves that baxter and yourself have created. i myself have used them before, and referenced you two as the source, and have found it ever useful as a descriptive language around the hoop. i thank both of you for that. beyond what the language, and now videos, have brought, the opening of possibilities that the ascents have created is the biggest blessing. by others blazing their own paths, it creates opportunities for the rest of us to be inspired to do things outside of our own norms. i may not ever emulate the hooppath (tm) style, but the fact that it exists and was created in a pure space feeds my own creative pool of potential. hooray for diversity of styles and creators of ascents!!
on another note......ascents, from another perspective, can be personal. when i started hooping, i had a small bit of visual experience from the playa to pull from. but since what i saw was so entirely new to me, i didn't know how to see the details, and just appreciated the whole of the thing called hoopdance. i played for many months after that by myself at home with the hoop, not knowing the possibilities that were ahead of me. through my very personal experience with the hoop, i feel i made many ascents. and while they were not new to the world, they were new to me. i feel so blessed that i was able to discover those things on my own, as the process was invaluable in connecting me deeply to the hoop mysteries.
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 3:18 PMThank you for your post, Spiral. I'm one of the people who's been posting in the past couple of days that's used the phrase "current changes," not knowing where it came from. I read it in someone else's post, and inferred that it meant changing the direction of spin of the hoop, and I, being new to these parts, thought that it was the proper or standard term for referring to that technique in the hoop community. I was relating to that concept via my poi practice -- direction changes are done a lot in the poi world, to the extent that it's something that's taken for granted, and there really isn't a name for it, it's just changing direction. One does a stall to initiate the direction change, which is what I believe you, in hoop-lingo, referred to as a break. But I digress. In the context of hoop, that it was a phrase & technique coined & developed by a specific individual (as opposed to being something in the realm of "general knowledge") I did not know. Now I do, and I thank you for the education.
But on the subject of First Ascents, I'd like to acknowledge that it goes beyond technique. Though I am new to the hoop community, it's pretty apparent to me that you (Spiral) and Baxter and those in your Hoop Path community are making a first ascent of another kind, in the sense of the spiritual/meditative/prayerful quality you bring to the dance. That is not an awareness that seems to be at the forefront of most people's hoop practice that I have encountered. I'm not saying that I don't believe it's present on some level, just that while I believe many hoopers have experienced personal growth & development as a result of their hooping, it's the Hoop Path community (that I have only encountered virtually) that's really been the only place I've noticed a conscious awareness & intention towards those spiritual aspects. So in my view it's a first ascent in terms of a concept of hoop practice, as opposed to technique. And for me, that's the most valuable example and biggest inspiration, above and beyond this or that trick. It's an approach I bring to my poi practice and seeing it enacted in the context of a different flow toy (I could go on about my ideas re: flow but this is not the place) is really heartening. I really hope to encounter you & Baxter on the playa this year and have a chance to hoop with you, or just to connect.
On the subject of technique, however, I'd like to point out that as far as hoop isolations go, acknowledgment must be made to Michael Moschen, the brilliant juggler/manipulation artist (juggler seems like such a small word to apply to Mr. Moschen). I'm not sure when he developed his hoop routine, but it was included in his show presented as "In Motion with Michael Moschen" that was an episode of Great Performances in 1991, though the routine itself I believe predates that show. He is not a hooper in the way that most of us here hoop, in that he doesn't hoop with a big hoop on his body; rather his focus is on manipulating small metal hoops in his hands. That approach seems to be gaining ground also (particularly with Dustin's recent videos, and the whole hooplets craze), but to me it seems like a different discipline entirely, though it does also make use of hoops. And in its own way, another first ascent. -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 8:57 PMI appreciate the perspectives shared on my post so far...it can be tricky in the virtual world to get points across clearly, in the way they are intended, and while I am grateful for the support and understanding expressed, it seems that i may have been misunderstood somewhat as well...i realize that I could be wrong about Baxter being 'the first' to do current changes (he was at least the first around here...i don't doubt that we are all swimming in a big pool of hoopgnosis and, hundredth monkey style, we can come to similar realizations at synchronous times)...i was trying to give props to my friend and greatest hoop-inspiration and, as some of The Hoop Path(tm) terminology is spreading out into the community, I thought it would be nice to acknowledge where it came from...
also, and i think i referenced this in the original post, the awareness that what we are all taking part in now with hoop dance is just the latest evolution in a very ancient practice/art form is at the very core of my personal experience with hooping. so many of the movements, particularly the sweeping, warrior-like passes, have an archetypal, deeply-rooted feeling of power and history that makes me feel as though i am channelling energies much older, wiser and deeper than I even know. i accept all that comes through the hoop as a gift, including the feeling of touching ancestral roots, and the feeling that, at least in this latest turn of the hoop art spiral, i and my tribe have charted some novel territory...through our love of this dance and the help of those that have gone before. new and old both at the same time.
In the words of one of The Hoop Path's favorite MCs- the Gift of Gab (Blackalicious) :
"...and at the end you find it only begins again and everything we learn we're only remembering"
Khan, I look forward to connecting with you on the playa as well...Thanks for the kind words and for bringing Michael Moschen's name into this thread...I haven't seen enough of his work, but I'm a big fan of the flow arts in general and have been practicing contact juggling for the last couple years as well. An art, as far as I know, that he originated. Or...remembered.
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 8:43 PMI found this to be an interesting post, and I fully appreciate wanting to offer respect to those who have done innovative things with hoops. However, I find it just a tad unsettling to use the term "first ascent," or any other term that credits any one particular person for "inventing" a move. I'm a long-time rock climber, so I fully understand the nature of the naming of routes and claims to "first ascents." However, tackling and completing a previously unclimbed route is really a very different thing than trying a new trick on a hoop. The difference is that a climb is a single, specific, identifiable route in a physical location that can be mapped, and the attempt later written up in any number of climbing magazines and journals, and thus, among climbing circles, it isn't that hard to ascertain that no one has mastered it before (you could argue that the route has been there for centuries and therefore may have been previoiusly climbed, but the realitiy is that the technology needed to make those ascents has only been developed over the last 25 or so years.) The climbing world is also inherently somewhat more competitive than say, the dancing/theater/acrobatic world (traditional "athletes" versus "artists", and mainly men versus mainly women.) Hoop tricks, on the other hand, can be attempted by anyone, any time, in the privacy of their own living room or back yard, and there's really no way to tell who "invented" it. I like to think they are more "discovered," and they may have been discovered by other people before they were discovered by the person who claims to have made it up. While I don't claim to have invented any previously-unattempted moves myself, I have on many occasions naturally discovered tricks I'd never seen before, but then later seen someone else do them. There is also a lot to be said for personal style and flair; a trick that is technically similar, but demonstrated by two hoopdancers with differnt body types and styles, becomes almost like two different moves. So who is to say who is to get the credit?
Furthermore, the idea that I should be needing or wanting credit for inventing hoop moves makes me sad. One of the most beautiful things about hooping is that it's fully centering; I am the only person inside my circle, it is sacred space, it is intensely personal, and the biggest rewards I get from hoopdancing are intrinsic. Externalizing the joy I find in hooping (like wanting credit for moves) just feels insulting to the internal reasons I dance in my hoop. It somehow turns it into a competition, turns the focus from the intrinsic rewards to the extrinsic, and to me this cheapens the spiritual relationship I have with my hoop.
I know there has been talk on this tribe before about performing, kind of along the same light. I guess I have less of an issue with performing, as I love to watch other fabulous hoopers showing their stuff. I think it's beautiful to watch, and I love to cheer them on, admire their talents, beauty, personality, and sex-appeal. Most of us probably have some degree of attention-lover in us, and it's fun to be showered with admiration for our dancing. Turn it into a competition, though, and all of the fun drains right out of it for me. I guess that's kind of how I feel about the term "first ascents" in hooping; rather than focusing on the joy each individual hooper finds in the dance style they've discovered and their relationship with their hoops, the focus shifts onto who's the "best" or "first" or "sexiest" or any other number of comparisons that somehow make some people's relationships with hooping more valuable than others. That feels sad to me.
As for honoring those who have gone where I have not, yes, yes, yes! I'm so grateful for the dear friends who have inspired and taught me, both the ones I hoop with regularly and the ones whose videos I download and watch over and over, hoping to learn new tricks. I am so grateful that they share what they've discovered, and I honor their love for hooping and the energy they've devoted to our favorite pass-time. But I like to believe that we all hoop on a most fundamental level for the intrinsic rewards we get from it, and honestly, I believe that hoopdancing is so inherently rewarding that almost all of us fuel our passion from our own joy, and not from the accolades of others.
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 8:47 PMI forgot that I meant to honor my elders in this reply as well, so I sing the praises of Ariel Stallings, Kara Spencer, and Rob Singer, the hoopers who first brought me into the fold, ignited the spark, fueld my passion, inspired me to find my own style, condinue to teach me their tricks, and have become my dear friends. -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 9:19 PMOh Dawn! I must have been writing my response at the same time you were...after I posted it I saw your words and hope that I haven't been misunderstood...i'm hoping that my attempt to acknowledge some of Baxter's techniques and terminology in no way implies that I feel like such credit has anything to do with why we hoop, or makes any person's hooping "better" than anyone elses. the inherent joy, personal expression/style and pure, centering feeling of hooping are what bring us back to the circle again and again...i have just been reading the threads of this tribe pretty regularly and have seen a fair number of instances where my hoop-brother's insights, techniques and teaching methodologies have been cited without credit and I wanted to give him (and some other folks) some props. i thoroughly appreciated jasmine's words on this subject, and that she mentioned Baxter in the context of sharing some of his insights/terms with others.
the fact that we are all growing, learning, and innovating every day with our hoops is part of what makes this such a beautiful, personal practice...I just know that Baxter-like myself- lives and breathes this art, he has put a lot of thought, time and flight-time into what has unfolded with The Hoop Path, and I thought it deserved some clear recognition... -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 9:42 PMDon't worry, Spiral, I really wasn't having strong negative feelings about your giving props to Baxter (in fact, I appreciated the enthusiasm you had for admiring his creativity and hooping). It was just more the unsettling feeling I got from that particular phrase. Much of what you wrote was really beautiful and from the heart, and I enjoyed it. I hope my thoughts weren't too harsh; it wasn't my intent to attack your words and ideas, so much as to express my own feelings that the best rewards of hooping come from within. That said, it's still very worthwhile to acknowledge the contributions of others, and your words about Baxter were truly honoring.
P.S. Are you still thinking of comging to Seattle? -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 10:56 PMI must admit, I found the "first" comment unsettling as well. Many of the things I have learned, I taught myself, including the need to hoop in both directions for total body conditioning. When I first came to that understanding (due to injuring my back from only hooping in one direction), I was the only person I knew who did it -- including Spiral (though I didn't know Baxter yet). So it felt strange to read that I should give props to someone else for understandings I came to on my own. I suspect I'm not the only one who felt that way. This appropriation of my own milestones feels like it dishonors my own journey with the hoop.
I am happy to sing the praises of my hoop elders, Spiral and Baxter among them. That's why I started the other thread. But this threadmade me realize that I forgot to honor one more teacher -- Me. Ultimately I have been my own best teacher, coach, researcher and cheerleader. I bet we all have. We should honor that also.
Anyway, I must say it feels uncomfortable to me to consider "ownership" of hoop concepts at all. To give credit where credit is due, Baxter has developed a terminology that many in the hooping community feel comfortable with and I'm glad about that. Yet when it comes to "owning" hoop concepts and understandings and tricks...? That feels very uncomfortable to me. It feels like a slippery slope of ownership and possession that could lead to arguments, defensiveness and competition. I don't want that at all! I like hooping because it doesn't have those things!!! So let's avoid that path, okay?
Others were right when they pointed out that there have been many who have gone before. We are all standing on the shoulders of others. These things belong to no one and every one. Many of them have been around in one form or another (rhythmic gymnastics, circuses, string cheese lots, ancient greece) for much longer than we even realize. Even our hoop elders have hoop elders... And I honor them all.
Respect. One Love. Namaste. Sat Nam. Walk in Peace my happy hoopy friends. -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 11:59 PMNice to see the conversational flow here, a nice dialogue happening!
The thought that popped into my head when reading all these posts was, I don't feel comfortable attributing a particular concept, skill or trick to one person, but I DO recognize (and verbally acknowledge) them as the person that I learned it from! Respect for the teaching and sharing, since actual development or invention is harder to pin down to a specific person, time and place (take "Nylon" for example.. anyone know where the name comes from?).
X.
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 1:09 AMnice piece, thanks spiral and the rest for communification on sacred space and respect to all.
i am a semi-traditional indian, mixed, but both parents adopted out native traditions as primers, thankfully, but we're urban, from los angeles. (yep, there used to be a ton of indians once roaming california, a sort of paradise, if its not forgotten, then all is not lost :) i now live in arizona where the apache do amazing hoop magic. i bet they would love baxters teachings as well and in this, i am uplifted and inspired and fortunate to have the cornerstone on contemporary hoop dance, not only that but invitation to do some storytelling and re-introduce the sacred wheel into younger kids who have lost their connection with their own traditions. i am working on it and thanks to so many of you for feeding me, putting up the groovy videos (how cool is that?!) and giving me the chance to hopefully further the greater goals intended here and there. if i look clearly enough, i can see possibly connecting further with some of the reservations around here (and they have amazing gyms/facilities for this stuff!) and take thing up another notch. truly, i am awaken in a bright new way, so mucvh gratitude, so many of you-- you know right? pioneers-- run with it and have integrity and watch it fly! the hopi, navajo and apache are into basketball and use their ball hoop as a tool as indians love gaming for the most part and count everything as spiritual-- its all connected in rounds... bless! and thanks--
www.nativespiritproduction.com/vi...mov
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 7:36 AM<<Anyway, I must say it feels uncomfortable to me to consider "ownership" of hoop concepts at all.>>
i agree caroleena very well put that is where i am uncomfortable as well
its like branding a style or something
what i also love about what you said about singing hoop praises--- to honor ourselves as being our own best teacher! so true !!!! i am a self taught hooper that has been inspired by so many!!!
Thank You Hoop Community -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 8:32 AMi don't really feel comfortable with the "first" idea, either. There's a long running debate in the poi community about "inventing" moves vs. "discovering" them which I think can be applied here as well. I don't think you can "invent" a hoop move, you discover it. The geometry is already there and always has been, through practice you discover different planes and directions and angles and moves. It's all play. Just because someone else somewhere else on the planet played with a toy a certain way before you did does not give them ownership of it, and doesn't make my (or your) progress with the hoop any less valuable for making the discovery later. -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 9:20 AMnot sure where the word "ownership" came from...it wasn't in my post, and it wasn't what I was implying at all. and the word "first" i feel i've qualified a few times now in reflecting that we are all in this together, remembering moves and concepts, etc..and, quite frankly, it was a fellow hooper/rock climber friend of mine in our tribe that described her impression of the correlation of 'first ascent' and some of what baxter has done with hoop movement. i liked the analogy and decided to use it here...not meaning to ruffle feathers...i have just travelled a lot, seen a lot of hoopers, and feel that what Baxter and myself have worked on and grown here in relative isolation is unique and special...just like everyone's own hoop path and style is a unique and wonderful expression of themselves...but elements of this special thing have been cited a few times of late and i thought i'd give a shout out
side note: i was slow to adopt baxter's current-switching style at first...when I first started my hoop path i was so caught up in the flow and ease of my first current- my turning, spiral dance- that my second was left way behind...for the last 1.5 years I have been devoting more time to the development of my ambi-hoopstressness ;-) and have loved the blooming of humbling balance. makes me appreciate his level of control all the more.
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 9:21 AMI just want to say that I am really glad that this discussion is happening. It feels healthy, important and necessary. This kind of conversation is relevant in almost any creative field: dance, pottery, music, writing.
In my mind, it's all about being respectful and honoring the people who are working their edge, who are discovering new treasures that are there for all of us to enjoy. No one owns anything. The rock climber who makes that first ascent doesn't own the climb. However, I feel that it is just plain good manners to acknowlege that climber who first discovered that route. Obviously some monkey or squirrel probably navigated that terrain long before the climber discovered it. But still...it's a way of honoring and expressing gratitude. It does not imply ownership.
I can understand why the word "first" might feel uncomfortable to many hoopers. Really there is no first. No one owns a certain move. However, I definitely acknowlege the fact that almost everything I do is derived from the inspiration and energy of those around me (and probably before me). I am so thankful for all the people who have shared with me and set me off on my own Path.
I'm so glad we can talk about this as a community.
Much love to all of you. -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 10:28 AMyes, i'm happy to see this discussion is happening as well, especially as i'm working on my second instructional dvd. I have many influences in my hoop practice as well, but ultimately my willingness and devotion to the practice is what's brought me to here and now. Everyone brings a unique flavor to the practice, which is what makes this practice and the world beautiful and interesting. Technology allows us to quickly disseminate teachings and thus the learning curve is much shorter than it was 5, 10, or 100's of years ago. I do not claim to be the first of anything, i'm only inspired to share what i know with others, and if in doing so, it helps people to become more present and in their bodies and out of their run on thinking minds then i feel like its all good. The world is a pretty crazy place right now and so focusing on how this wonderful movement art is actually healing on so many levels is my focus.
The art of hooping IS being able to follow and lead the hoop simultaneously and with intention, Baxter beautifully demonstrates this with his ability to change directions or currents as he calls it. While changing directions is not a new concept, I truly appreciate his unique style and focusing on "intentionally moving the energy".
I'm sure many of you have heard of Bikram's Yoga...or i like to refer to it as "hot yoga"...where you do yoga in a room that is heated up...Mr. Bikram has somehow trademarked this idea, even though yoga is thousands of years old. I've noticed that the Hoop Path (tm) is in process of being trademarked as well, which seems like a huge ascent. My suggestion would be to perhaps explain the terminology so that it doesn't become used so loosely...since it seems that changing currents is much more than just changing directions... i dunno if i'm correct about that but that's my impression.
As far as my first ascents go, for me that would be more about the business world since my profession is in hooping. Being able to create a successful business, travel, teach and do what i love has been an ongoiong ascension that is powered by my persistance, diligence and commitment to what i know is a wonderful thing even if i just stick to the basic moves of hoopdance, its powerful stuff!
well that's it, except that it would be nice if Baxter chimed in at some point...
much love and respect to all! -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 10:58 AM"i have just travelled a lot, seen a lot of hoopers, and feel that what Baxter and myself have worked on and grown here in relative isolation is unique and special...just like everyone's own hoop path and style is a unique and wonderful expression of themselves...but elements of this special thing have been cited a few times of late and i thought i'd give a shout out "
So, everyone's special, but some people are more special? I don't know why this ruffles my feathers so much, but it does. I also developed my hoop practice in relative isolation - never even having heard of anah or christabel or who ever ... but I don't lay claim to having been the first to "ascend" to angle hooping, nor do I call it "mine" ... it's just how I hoop. It's a style. whatever. I don't care if people who've seen me do it, and then mimic teh style give me "credit" or not. But then again, i guess it's a different thing once you start charging for classes and stuff, I guess you would need to trademark some stuff.
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 12:14 PM<<I'm sure many of you have heard of Bikram's Yoga...or i like to refer to it as "hot yoga"...where you do yoga in a room that is heated up...Mr. Bikram has somehow trademarked this idea, even though yoga is thousands of years old.>>>
very good point
hoop path is trademarking their style of hooping
which of course is going to raise a discussion
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 1:40 PMYes Dawn, I strongly agree with what you have written.
AMEN!
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 6:47 PMGreetings and Blessings to the Community and to the Greater Hoop in which so many of us find Sanctuary from the hectic haste of modern day survival
I asked a poet to read my first response to this thread, and it lead into a very lengthy discussion of voice and of tone. Her advice to me was that I be true to my feelings and open in sharing them with you. She also advised that I should be calm and at peace as I write. I have sat in stillness, and have found pe*A*ce with the soothing, subtle ritmo of Inner Calm.
Clearly, my Friends, the Winds have become hostile as they have circled around us. Although, I do not believe this was the intention of my Sister, and close friend, Spiral, I believe that our tempers have become provoked and that emotions which have slept within us have awoken with a fury. I am only a man, and thus, I can not see into the hearts of those of you who posted. It would be unfruitful for all of us if I were to attempt to guess what has angered you so much. There appears to me to be much beneath the visible surface here which only we ourselves can see within the cooler, darker waters of our inner selves.
Spiral meant to honor me publicly and I am moved beyond words by her thoughts regarding the impact of my Practice on her and the Community of which I am a part. For those of you who do not know us, I ask that you believe me when I say to you, that our intention (as Hoop Pathers) is to serve the Community of Hoopers that is, and that will be.
The Hoop Path ™ is a course that we teach weekly here in Carrboro, NC and at workshops in other areas. We have received counsel that the curriculum and the name "The Hoop Path" be trademarked and copy written. This was a difficult decision for us. Our difficulty with this decision came from our desire to keep hooping as free and open as possible and yet protect the integrity of our specific project. In this regard, perhaps, we are more like you than you realize. We, too, hold hooping as a Spiritual practice in the highest Respect. Perhaps like you, we do not like to be told that something blown to us, and through us, is a commodity in need of protection. I understand your anger and frustration with those who place flags marking territory that can not be claimed by anyone other than the Divinity, herself. With an earnest heart, I tell you that Your Hoop Path can not be trademarked. Your Hoop Path is your own, and it belongs to no one else. And we like it that way. We wouldn’t do anything to deny anyone anything as they walk the Path to their final liberation.
Finally, I would like you to know that there is a difference in the way one must communicate when money is involved. Our culture forces us into these awkward symbols of the rich and powerful. Believe me, I am a poor dude. Before I taught, I was disgusted by the sight of trademarks and copy-right symbols over everything. Maybe the way some of you feel now. But, I have put my heart and soul into this class and it is really the only thing in my life besides hooping to which I feel any real attachment. I was advised that eventually I was going to need to protect it before we could go further, and that the sooner I did so the better. If this course can sustain me enough that I can stop working a job that depletes my spirit, then I’ll take whatever steps necessary to make that happen. That resolution comes straight from my Practice and it cannot be ignored.
From Calmness: offered,
Baxter -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Fri, July 21, 2006 - 7:18 PMWell said, Baxter... and thanks for the calm approach :)
and as someone who has recently left her soul-depleting work, and is currently (and cautiously!) stumbling along a self-lit path that includes hooping among other means of self-support... I can hope to offer you a vision of success.. so far, it is working! Every time I've thought "Guh, will this ever get off the ground and GO somewhere?"... within a week, it has reached a new level.. small steps, but they've made me stop doubting the universe and accept that I was meant to be here, and I am doing the right thing, at the right time, in the right place.
The work you have done in forming the Hoop Path and its specific approach to hooping should be acknowledged, and trademarking is a reasonable way to ensure that is so... Would you consider following up this thread with another, that discusses the terms that you have coined for various aspects in your teaching approach? That would perhaps give us something to reference when we use those terms to describe something (and prevent incorrect usage).. along with kicking the rest of us along the road of developing our own or a communal vocabulary :) (started a while ago, didn't get far.. maybe another attempt is due?)
Much hooping peace :) I'm off to nap, then out to hoop in public tonight, with some to share with the unhooped :)
X. -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Sat, July 22, 2006 - 12:20 PMi agree too. theres really is nothihng wrong with trademarking, its the integrity behind it that counts. and if y'all are finding this a spiritual endeavor, you'll find that consciousness is nuetral, you be creator! do it! i am finding through the opportunities of hooping and i can actually satisfy my true will, that is, the true will of the spirit-- be free, and nature will provide what is neccessary. trademarks are protection mechanisms. if there is no war involved ion the intention, then its no problem, no one is creating karma. its simple. honoring your path is vital, and its an open field. i am finding that i can now operate multiple strings, including hoop and other healing modalities that are fun. i'm narrowing down my day job of waiting tables in exchange for another type of service to the greater good. i see so many of you doing it-- that is healing!!! what else is there? i don't think anyone is trademarking agaisnt another, its just a tool to ensure being hacked, which is still an issue in our society, until we can change it wholly, these little laws are in place to serve us better.
anyone familiar with kinesiology? its a great tool to test the integrity of anything-- many peaces!! :) -
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Re: Acknowledging First Ascents
Sat, July 22, 2006 - 1:00 PMBlessings to you, Anistara.
pe*A*ce,
baxter
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